Revelation, Chapter 1

In this episode of Salty Believer Unscripted, Josiah Walker and Bryan Catherman open to Revelation 1:1-20 and talk about the first chapter and tools for approaching the entire book. They also discuss about how to break up the book, tackle a reading plan through the book, and study well. What’s the best commentary for the book of Revelation? The book of Revelation doesn’t have to be difficult if we don’t make it harder than it needs to be. We encourage you to join this study and listen in on the conversation. Listen wherever you get your podcasts or listen here:

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An Introduction to the Book of Revelation

Josiah Walker and Bryan Catherman are starting a new series that explores the book of Revelation. Why study this book? What are the typical approaches to this book? What are the pitfalls? Is it Revelation or Revelations? What causes us to avoid this book? In this episode, they answer these questions and more. In this series, they hope to journey through the book of Revelation in such a way that brings the comfort, joy, and blessing the book should bring. The first episode serves as an introduction. Listen wherever you get podcasts or listen here:

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Can Jeff Iorg Save the SBC?

Dr. Jeff Iorg, retiring as the President of Gateway Seminary, has been nominated to lead the SBC as the Executive Committee President and CEO. Can he save the SBC? Is the SBC even savable? If Iorg can’t, nobody can. In this episode of Salty Believer Unscripted, Bryan Catherman and Josiah Walker share their thoughts about the sinking ship of the SBC and what Iorg might be able to do. Listen to this episode wherever you get podcasts or listen here:

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A Fork in the Road for the SBC

Sitting at lunch, 700 miles from home with two pastors I did not know, I was not surprised that one of their first questions was, "Why the SBC?" These two young men--one a church planter and the other a new pastor of an old church--were asking me if I thought there was any reason to consider being a part of the Southern Baptist Convention or remaining a part of the SBC. I didn't bring it up. I didn't mention that I pastor a church that presently partners with the SBC. They asked. This question is relatively typical in pastor circles these days. It's a reasonable question.

In 2020, congregants started asking, "Has the SBC gone woke?" The SBC was entangled with critical race theory (CRT) and has been arguing about untangling or tightening the knot ever since. For years, there have been questions and arguments about sexual abuse and more significant arguments about what to do about it. Race reconciliation and how to redeem the past, present, and future has been an ongoing argument for decades. The ERLC has sparked numerous in-house arguments about their involvement with elections, pro and anti-abortion legislation, and their participation in promoting Tenesse red-flag gun control laws. Who is and is not a pastor promoted a change in the Baptist Faith and Message that has done more to divide than unite, for good or bad. Questions about NABM's methodologies, partnerships, and accountability have caused sharp, ongoing disagreements. The gross mishandling of seminary funds has been a source of jokes and arguments. Top leaders spiritually disqualifying themselves hasn't helped. Neither has plagiarism. Financial accountability and transparency among the entities the SBC messengers started and funded but can't control have also been the seeds of numerous disputes. Lawsuits. More lawsuits. The lawsuit filed against the SBC by the federal government isn't helping either.

These two pastors also bemoaned issues with their local association and state convention. There was a time when pastors would be frustrated with the SBC national scene but find comfort in the work of local SBC partnerships. Those days are waning, too.

In many cases, the local associations and conventions--among what is often praised as a locally autonomous organization--have terminated autonomy by overly partnering with the national scene for one reason or another. And if they haven't partnered, many seem to have other issues. Lack of vision, lack of innovation in a post-pandemic world, and mission drift are often sources of contention and division.

These struggles have caused pastor and church involvement to decline. Furthermore, sending funds to the Cooperative Program is hard when nobody's cooperating. Efforts to "fix" the local organizations have become another source of disagreement, just as complicated as the disagreements circling the efforts to "fix" the SBC nationally.

Acts 15:36-41 speaks deeply into this matter.

Paul and Barnabas had a great run. Together, they helped equip and train up the church in Antioch. Their first missionary journey was fruitful. They were instrumental in the outcome of the First Jerusalem Council, and the Apostles chose them to take the decision back to the saints. These guys were a power team with a praiseworthy, successful ministry history. But then, a sharp disagreement about how they would move forward arose. How would this be resolved?

It's no small thing that just before this passage, Acts 15:1-35 deals with a serious disagreement and dispute. That issue had much to do with how the Old Testament relates to the New Testament and how Judaism is associated with Christianity, all playing out in the necessity of circumcision. What a severe disagreement that could have easily split the Church! In that case, the dispute was positively resolved unless you were on the side of the Circumcision Party. Now, what would happen between Paul and Barnabas? How would their dispute end?

As it turned out, the disagreement between Paul and Barnabas ended with a split. Barnabas took Mark one way, and Paul took Silas another. What this a positive or negative outcome? Commentators are at odds, but it's clear God's work continued, even if it didn't look like it always looked. There are times when Christians will do ministry, but it may be better that they don't do it together. When the disagreement becomes so distracting from the work, something needs to change.

The SBC is at a fork. Some will continue along the path together, and others will take the divergent trail. Both options are okay. What's not okay is dragging on the sharp disagreements for so long that the work of ministry stalls to nothing. What's not okay is extending the dispute about how we do ministry to include an assault on the choices that churches need to make to continue serving our Lord, one way or another.

The SBC could have many fewer churches. The Corporate program could have substantially less money. But if all the churches stay Kingdom-minded, gospel work will continue in fruitful ways. Churches that no longer share funds with the SBC will deploy those funds in other ways and with other partnerships. Chances are good that churches that separate from the SBC will begin doing more ministry work and give more money to gospel work because they will no longer be so frustrated or discouraged by a dysfunctional partnership. Stalled ministry may move forward once again. And when there's less disagreement within the SBC, the SBC may return to doing healthy ministry, even on a small scale. This is okay, even more than okay. It's good.

I know my answer to the question posed by those two pastors. I also know my answer doesn't need to be anyone else's answer. Autonomous churches need to make their determinations autonomously. They need to choose if and how they partner with the SBC, if and how much they give to the voluntary funding program, and how they feel about it. Autonomous churches must be okay with other autonomous churches doing things differently unless they don't care about autonomy. If we're going to move past this challenging season, we need to look past our disagreements, make our determinations, and choose the path. Then, maybe we'll get back to serving our Lord well.

The Shorter Catechism Explained from Scripture by Thomas Vincent

Bryan Catherman recommends Thomas Vincent's The Shorter Catechism Explained from Scripture, and he explains how to use it and get much from this Puritan Paperback. This book was first published in 1674. Banner of Truth originally republished it in 1980 and then reprinted in with a new cover and typeset in 2021.

Find more book recommendations like this one on the SaltyBeliever.com book recommendation page.

Utah Christian Resource Center Site Visit

Join Josiah Walker, Bryan Catherman, and Robbie Tschorn as they visit and tour the Utah Christian Resource Center. This is a wonderful new resource for learning to defend your faith, learning more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, learning Bible history, and so much more. Listen to the guy’s impression as they visit and record on site to document their experience. Listen to Salty Believer Unscripted wherever you get podcasts or listen here:

Learn more about the Utah Christian Resource Center here and watch the video below:

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Concluding Thoughts on a CST Workshop

Josiah Walker and Bryan Catherman discuss their concluding thoughts on a Charles Simeon Trust workshop on this episode of Salty Believer Unscripted. After talking with Brett Ricley, Robert Kinney, and being on-site, they share what they’re thinking and what they hope to see in the future. They plan to attend more workshops and they’ve love to see one in Utah. Listen to this episode of Salty Believer Unscripted wherever you get podcasts or listen here:

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On Site for the Leader's Day at a CST Workshop (with Daniel)

Daniel Catherman, Josiah Walker, and Bryan Catherman observed the leader’s training day before the Charles Simeon Trust workshop in Southern California. They share their thoughts on-site at the end of a long day. What goes into a workshop? How do the leaders and apprentices prepare for the workshop? They answer these questions and many more on this episode. Listen wherever you get podcasts or listen here:

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CST Workshops with Robert Kinney (Part 2)

Join Josiah Walker and Bryan Catherman as they chat with Robert Kinney, the director of the Charles Simeon Trust. In this episode, they ask Robert more questions about the CST Workshops and many are the questions you were thinking to ask but they had little to do with what you need to know about attending a Workshop. Who are some of the heavy-hitters who have instructed at workshops? What’s the craziest things to happen at workshops? What are workshops like in other countries? How many chickens are unhelpful at a workshops. Robert answers these questions and many more. Listen to this episode of Salty Believer Unscripted wherever you get podcasts or listen here:

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CST Workshops with Robert Kinney (Part 1)

In this episode of Salty Believer Unscripted, Josiah Walker and Bryan Catherman chat with Robert Kinney, the Director of Ministries at the Charles Simeon Trust. Robert joined the conversation to discuss what to expect at a CST Workshop. How do they work? Why attend one? What should first-time participants expect? He answers these questions and many more. Listen to this episode wherever you get podcasts or listen here:

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Brett Ricley's Take on the CST Workshop

Josiah Walker and Bryan Catherman had a zoom meeting with Brett Ricley about the Charles Simeon Trust workshop. He’s attended two in the past, so the guys wanted to get his take. What will the workshop be like? What should we expect? How did it go for Brett? What would Brett change or improve if he could? These are the kinds of questions they ask and he answers. Listen to this episode of Salty Believer Unscripted wherever you listen to podcasts or listen here:

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The Charles Simeon Trust: An Introduction

Join Josiah Walker and Bryan Catherman as they discuss the Charles Simeon Trust workshop. They are headed to a workshop on preaching Epistles, specifically 2 Timothy, and they thought they’d podcast their experience. In this episode, they share what they’re excited about and what’s making them nervous. In the coming episodes, they’ll chat with someone who’s already attended some workshops, and they’ll also talk with Robert Kinney from Charles Simeon Trust. They also hope to record an episode or two on site. Whether you’re a preacher or not, this series will give you a good look into these workshops, but also some of what goes into preparing sermons. Listen to this episode wherever you get podcasts or listen here:

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Now What?

You invited someone to a Christmas or Easter service. Maybe they came; maybe they didn’t. Now what? What’s the next step after you’ve invited a friend or co-worker to church? That’s the topic of this episode of Salty Believer Unscripted. Josiah Walker and Bryan Catherman discuss what might work well as a next step. There are many possibilities. Where do we go next? What happens next? Listen this episode of Salty Believer Unscripted wherever you listen to podcasts, or listen here:

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A Look Back and a Look Ahead

Join Josiah Walker and Bryan Catherman as they look back at 2023 and look ahead to 2024. What’s coming on the Salty Believer Unscripted podcast? This is their 524th episode so they chat about some past episodes and things Bryan is doing to remember some of the greatest hits. Keep an eye out for that. Also, they talk about what they’ve read and what they’re hoping to read. Listen to this episode on Salty Believer Unscripted wherever you listen to podcasts or listen here:

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The Gospel from Genesis to Revelation in 13 Minutes

As a Pastor, I have the task of preaching a Christmas Eve service each year. Technically, it’s an Eve of Eve sermon because the church I pastor does an event on December 23rd. It’s basically the same things church all across the country do, just a day early. Lots of music, a short sermon, evangelistic, and well-attended by friends and family who only step into a church building once or twice per year. Sermons on this night typically come from Matthew 1 or Luke 2. Attendees have gotten this part of the Gospel story down but know nothing of the rest of the story. This was frustrating me this year. I wanted to do something different so we’d hear the story from Genesis to Revelation.

Biblical theology is important. The story of the entire Bible is necessary. I believe in the sufficiency of Scripture. But what would be the best way to share the story in such a short blip of time?

I decided that I would link as much Scripture together as possible with a limited amount of my own words getting in they way. I could read a large section of Scripture, but how would I cover the story for Genesis to Revelation? I decided to string together Scriptures, or parts of Scriptures, in such a way to tell the story. I’d let God’s words have as much of the time and all the speaking. To let people know that’s what I was attempting to do, we put up the references as I went.

Preparation was was a difficult task. One challenge was determining which Scriptures to pull together. Another challenge was being sure it was clear. At times the way a verses was worded, I was concerned someone unfamiliar with the Bible would be confused. But the most significant challenge was going through each Scripture and doing my best to be sure I was using the verses as they actually communicate in their own context. At times, I pulled from them as if they were the prophecy rather then fulfillment, but I would have to change the tense. Other times, I spoke only parts of the verse. But it would need to communicate as God’s Word intends to communicate. I’m sure it wasn’t spot-on right, but I labored to get as close the mark as I could.

In thirteen minutes, I read from 85 references that covered parts of verses or entire multiple passages. They spanned from Genesis to Revelation. I think the gospel story was told and I believe it worked. I was well received. You can decide for yourself in the video below. Also, the list of Scriptures I used are below the video.

Scripture references in the order they'll be read (or said):

Hebrews 1:1, Genesis 1:1, Genesis 1:31, Genesis 3:1, John 8:44, 1 Peter 5:8, Genesis 2:17, Genesis 3:23, Romans 5:12, Genesis 3:16, Revelation 22:3, Isaiah 25:9, Genesis 12:1, Genesis 12:3, Exodus 3:4, Genesis 18:18-19, John 1:29, Exodus 12:13, Hebrews 10:4, Hebrews 10:1, Acts 4:12, 1 Samuel 13:4, 2 Samuel 7:12-13, Psalm 53:6, Micah 7:7, Amos 3:7, Luke 24:27, Isaiah 7:14, Micah 5:2, Jeremiah 31:15, Isaiah 40:3, Matthew 12:18-21, Matthew 13:14-15, John 1:11, Deuteronomy 21:23, Isaiah 53:3, Philippians 2:6-11, Luke 2:8, Luke 2:11, Matthew 1:23, Matthew 1:25, Matthew 1:21, Hebrews 1:1, John 1:14, Luke 2:52, 2 Corinthians 5:21, Hebrews 4:25, 2 Peter 2:22, Romans 3:23, Matthew 3:16, Mathew 4:1, Matthew 4:17, Matthew 7:22, Romans 6:23, John 3:16-18, John 1:10-11, Matthew 21:5, Matthew 21:9-10, Luke 23:21, John 19:18, 1 Peter 2:24, 2 Corinthians 5:21, Isaiah 53:5, Hebrews 10:10, Luke 23:53, Luke 24:1-3, Luke 24:6, Acts 1:9, Romans 10:9, John 1:12, Matthew 13:16-17, Romans 8:34, Hebrews 13:3, Matthew 11:28, John 14:6, John 14:3, Matthew 16:27, Revelation 20:10, Isaiah 43:19, 2 Corinthians 5:15, Romans 8:1-2, John 14:27, Revelation 22:17, Revelation 22:20, and Revelation 22:21.

Students Coming Out of Seminary Today, an Interview with Mark Bradley

In this episode of Salty Believer Unscripted, Bryan Catherman interviewed Dr. Mark Bradley, the Director of the Pacific Northwest Campus of Gateway Seminary. They discuss ministry in the Pacific Northwest, seminary education, and Mark’s outlook for the future that graduating students are entering. They also talk about what he sees in students today. Is the pipeline empty? Are there not enough pastors to fill the pulpits of all the boomers retiring soon? Has the challenges of liberalism and the shifting cultural tides scared off students? What can we expect in the future based on what we are seeing today. These are among many of the questions they covered. Listen to Salty Believer Unscripted wherever you get podcasts or listen to both parts of this 2-part interview with Mark Bradley here:

Students Coming Out of Seminary Today, an Interview with Mark Bradley
— Part 1
audio


— Part 2
audio

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Ecumenical Ministry: All Together

On this episode of Salty Believer Unscripted, Bryan Catherman and Josiah Walker discuss ecumenical ministry. Should churches join with non-Christian ministries in the community? Should we lay down our differences and compromise the gospel of Jesus Christ for the sake of community? What about working with other Christians who do things very differently? How do we decide? Everything is done in some way, but who decides which way, and is it really a two-way street? These the questions that lead the conversation and they answer these and more.

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Keeping the Saw Sharp

Now that Josiah Walker has finished seminary, he and Bryan Catherman discuss how a person can get sharp and stay sharp. What do pastors do? What can people with limited time do? How do trained people stay sharp and keep up with their training? What if we have a huge list of books we want to read but limited time? How do we structure our study time? What are some of the best practices? Bryan and Josiah answer these questions others in this episode of Salty Believer Unscripted. Listen wherever you listen to podcasts or listen here:

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12-Years Later: The Very First Salty Believer Unscripted Podcast

It was on January 26, 2012, that I sat down with Jared Jenkins and recorded the very first episode of Salty Believer Unscripted. Will filmed it as well as recorded it in an audio-only fashion so we could determine if it would be a podcast with or without video. Just looking at the work the video required, we opted for audio-only. The topic of that first podcast was seminary, chiefly Jared Jenkins experiences as he had just completed his Masters of Divinity (M.Div). I was a semester away from doing the same. The title of our first podcast is "Seminary with Jared Jenkins." That first episode became the anchor and format for our long-running, online of weekly podcast

In that episode, Jared discussed his experience at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary and Bryan at Liberty Baptist Theological Seminary. At one point, they even mentioned Golden Gate Baptist Theological seminary (now Gateway Seminary of the Southern Baptist Convention). Twelve years later, I’ve earned a DMin and Jared a PhD. I’ve planted a church which I still pastor and Jared is likely to become the Senior Pastor of the church were we recorded that podcast. Jared has also had many other ventures in his academic endeavors, starting the Salt Lake School of Theology (a teaching site of Gateway Seminary) were he teaches as an adjunct professor, he’s published in journals and books, and he’ll probably end up a seminary President one day. I’ve also done some seminary teaching and lecturing, served a doctoral committee and been a field mentor for doctoral candidates, and published. We’ve both served two terms at the president of the Utah-Idaho Southern Baptist Convention. It’s been a remarkable 12 years.

We’ve also had the pleasure of recording many amazing Salty Believer Unscripted episodes with tons of interesting guests—both well know and obscure. Guests have included folks like Al Mohler, Jeff Irog, Jason Allen, Jim Hamilton, Doug Wilson, Becket Cook, George Guthrie, Bobby Jamieson, Jonathan Howe, Temper Longman III, Rick Melick, Jeremy Meeks, Alvin Reed, J. D. Payne, Robert Plummer, Robert Kinney, Jimmy Scroggin, Trevin Wax, Lynn Wilder, Malcom Yarnell, Jim Wilson, Travis Kerns, Nik Ripken, Randy Stenson, Vance Pitman, Will Mancini, and so many others. (See the complete list here.)

We’ve had multiple interns, one of which went on to become a host—Josiah Walker. Brett Ricley also joined for along season hosting the podcast with me.

It’s been a great 12 years. We’re hoping for another great 12 years of podcasting, should our Lord tarry. We’re hoping to make a return to having guests on and we’re praying for some highly interesting conversations. It’s our prayer that this podcast blesses our listeners and edifies the Church, however God may determine to use our feeble efforts. We also hope to bring back a SBU Rewind post now and then to draw some attention to some of the outstanding discussions we’ve had. Keep an eye out for those. (You can find all of our episodes here.)

In the meantime, if you’ve never listened to the first episode of Salty Believer Unscripted, you can listen here:

You can also watch this episode on YouTube. It was originally posted on my personal YouTube account. In 2017, we moved it over to our Salty Believer YouTube Channel when we decided it was time SaltBeleiver.com needed a channel.

Find all our past podcasts on our website, SaltyBeliever.com and hear new podcasts by subscribing to Salty Believer Unscripted wherever you get your podcasts.

Josiah Has Graduated: A Discussion on the Value of Seminary

Josiah Walker has graduated! We’re proud of him. Congratulations Josiah! In this episode, Bryan Catherman interviewed Josiah Walker about the value of his time in seminary at Gateway Seminary. If you’re thinking about going to seminary, hearing Josiah’s experience may help you think well about seminary. What was the most valuable? Which class was his favorite? Knowing what he knows now, would he do it again? Listen to this episode wherever you listen to the Salty Believer Unscripted podcast, or listen here:

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