SBU: "Pray"

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The COVID disruption has been hard on our podcast schedule, but we’re doing what we can to return to weekly podcasting. In this episode, we pick up our series, “Now What?” This series is exploring the question, “Now that I’m a Christian, what do I do?” We’ll explore some of the basic beginnings, but also dig into some of the deeper challenges of the Christian journey. Listen to this episode, “Prayer,” here:

Find more podcasts like this, as well as many interviews with Christian pastors, professors, authors, and others from all across the US and Canada on our Salty Believer Unscripted page. And be sure to subscribe to the Salty Believer Unscripted on your favorite podcast app, or use these links:
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Unscripted: Mission Trips During COVID?

Opening church buildings for in-person worship services has been controversial inside and outside the Church. Ministry work has shifted during the coronavirus/COVID pandemic, and many are asking what Kingdom work should look like now and on the other side of the COVID season. How does the Church do ministry work in a pandemic? What if this continues for years? What about the next time a pandemic hits? These are important questions. We must address what it means to obey the Great Commandment and Great Commission in light of the challenges of pandemic, persecution, and changing dynamics of the Church in the world.

Matt Longworth led a short-term mission team from Forest Hills Baptist Church in Franklin, Tennessee to Utah to work with Redeeming Life Church. They were faithful, flexible, and had to practice many safety precautions they couldn’t have anticipated when they started planning the trip six-months earlier.

In this episode of Salty Believer Unscripted, Matt and Bryan discuss what happened (nobody got COVID), the pros and cons, how we should think about short-term mission trips in the future, and why faithfulness should always be key when it comes to going on short-term mission trips. Listen to this episode here:

Find more podcasts like this, as well as many interviews with Christian pastors, professors, authors, and others from all across the US and Canada on our Salty Believer Unscripted page. And be sure to subscribe to the Salty Believer Unscripted on your favorite podcast app, or use these links:
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Whoring After Information Idols

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Coronavirus has exposed our idols of information.  We worship these idols with high intensity and defend them with ferocious, relational violence.  We are digging deep trenches between our brothers and sisters in Christ in favor of our false gods: information, pride, and our selfish need to be right.  Sadly, these idols encourage no grace, patience, love, community, unity, or empathy. 

Let's walk thought a thought exercise.  Be honest with yourself.

Imagine you've entered a small room that's packed with 20 people.  One of them is on a respirator.   A couple are sleeping and look uncomfortable; five or six others are and coughing and wheezing.  One is vomiting.  One looks to be dead.  Still, others seem perfectly healthy.  With certainty, all of them have twice tested positive for coronavirus. 

What is your gut reaction? 

Do you wish you were wearing a mask?  Or maybe you would prefer the twenty in the room were wearing masks?  Gloves? What about hand sanitizer?  Are you willing to sit down next to them?  Share a meal?  Sing some songs together?  Or perhaps you would prefer to leave the room altogether?  There are a few people who do nothing and freely get coronavirus with them. "It's inevitable," they say.   Is that your gut reaction?  Is there a possibility this 20-person "herd" is enough that you won't get coronavirus? 

If you wanted masks involved, you believe something about the effectiveness of masks.  If you wanted to leave or you thought you shouldn't have been in the room in the first place, you probably value closing businesses and restricting movement.  If you were okay to let some of them die for herd immunity, you might not find all life valuable.  If you thought, "I won't get coronavirus," you might have been proven wrong if you remained in that room for a little while.  What then?

Your actions in this situation are an indication of what you believe.  And what you think is based on the information you've chosen to accept and what information you've chosen to reject.  That's a natural part of decision making, and it's right for all of us.  But there are multiple problems with the information we’ve received and that which we have discarded. 

First, most of us are not trained in viruses or pandemics.  We're not epidemiologists.  Therefore, we have to get information from others who might be knowledgeable in these areas.  However, because we've turned information into idols, we have forgotten that our certainty level is based on what we've heard from others.  And we’ve forgotten that the information we’ve received from others isn’t not perfect.  Those "others" could be disagreeing-scientists, differing epidemiologists, politicians, or Karen on Facebook.  Too often, we're building the information idols we worship and believe them with 100% certainty because we desire to define or redefine reality. We have a sinful yearning to be the creator of information idols because then we can create a personal reality apart from truth.  But idols are made of sand and shadows.  

Next, people are clashing because we're learning that "what's true for you doesn't have to be true for me" is not true.  Not at all.  We're defending our information idols because we desperately want to be right.  We want our idols to be right.  But this means we have to rip apart the idols of others.  We become priests and apologists of our false idols.  We love our idols so much, and we don't want them to fail us.  But they're failing us.  They'll always fail us. 

Third, our information idols demand that we love them more than we love our neighbors.  No, I'm not talking about wearing a mask or not.  I refer to our love of the failing idols more than our love for people.  We’re destroying relationships with others who are made in God's image.  We're willing to sacrifice relationships on the alters of our false gods.  We shame.  We fight.  We offer no grace, love, or empathy.  There's no room to disagree or reason together because the idols demand our total allegiance.  

Finally, our information idols demand that we love them more than we love God.  We act as if God's Word and instruction is optional while our information idols offer unquestionable truth.  It proves that we value our idols more than we value God.  As the Bible puts it, we're whoring ourselves out to the information idols.  What a travesty!  What a sin!

But what if Christians acted differently? 

What might be the result in this sinful world if Christians were marked not by which false idols we stand with, but that God shines through us into dark places?  What if people knew we were disciples of Christ by how we love others? 

Might we be able to say, "I don't know if mask work or don't work, I'm not an epidemiologist, but I do know Romans 13 is true because I am an ambassador of Christ"?    

Is it not okay to hope that God would use masks as a solution, so we don't have to remain isolated and close small businesses?  Can't we hope while we hold the information loosely?  What other options do we have?  Why fight about masks?  If they don't work, can't we hope for other solutions together without tearing each other apart?  Can we pray together without fighting?  

What should mark us as believers?  Who are we in Christ?  Can we stand on the Truth of God and stop letting all the bombarding outside-information change our world view?  Our information idols shouldn't change our impressions of other people, so why are we allowing them that kind of power?  Why do we have them at all!  God must inform our world view and thoughts of others.  Can we offer grace to our neighbors as they also work to figure this out?  Can we point them to the only source of true hope and transcended Truth?  We can’t, and we won’t if we keep worshiping false idols.   

It's tough to navigate this broken, sinful world.  Our neighbors need someone who stands on the Rock of Christ and isn't all twisted up the world's ball of snakes.  So do our brothers and sisters in Christ.  Might it be possible that God is calling his people to lay down our idols and transcend this mess for our neighbor's souls?  Perhaps God is calling us to rise above this momentary, light, complication of coronavirus for the eternal magnitude of God's Kingdom, for God's glory.  Could it be?  I certainly hope so.

Hypocrisy Exposed: What Masks Could Teach Us

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I wrote a post for the church I pastor about how our rejection to wearing masks could keep us away from people who need to hear the gospel, or even rob us of opportunities.  My point had nothing to do with the medical effectiveness or political significance of wearing a mask during the pandemic. (And it still doesn’t.)  Yet, the negative responses from strangers are alarming.  

At first, I wanted to respond to these Christians to give them a better argument for not wearing a mask then the inconsistent, selfish arguments they were offering.  But the more I thought about the matter, the more I’ve come to see that masks—on our faces or not— expose dangerous hypocrisy in our theology and behavior.

Allow me to share some examples.   

One responder commented something to the effect of, “We should not be afraid like the world and masks are a symbol of the world’s fear.”  Along similar lines, another said, “My hope is in Jesus, not in a mask.” 

Indeed, as Christians, our utmost hope must be in Christ, and we should not be afraid.  But let us not miss God’s common grace to bless the world.  One who won’t wear a mask based on the above argument should also reject other government regulated safety like seat belts, speed limits, fire extinguishers, and 911 services.  The person making such arguments should care nothing for who wins political office, who is appointed as a Supreme Court Justice, or for the right to carry a concealed weapon.  These are also things Christians might place hope and concern in (at least a little) because they all have some involvement in reducing (or increasing) things that could cause fear.  God is sovereign over all things; it is God who empowers governments.             

Another responder was concerned that masks are part of the liberal political addenda.  The argument continued that if we give in to wearing masks, the next request will be to burn down all churches.  “The government has no right to force us to submit to their agenda,” the angry response continued. 

Even apart from the extreme language, it’s nonsensical.  This is the argument of the pro-choice movement, the LGBTQ+ movement, and many others.  It’s ironic how quickly cultural-Christians have adopted the same argument.  When I pointed this out to someone recently, I was rebuffed with, “But abortion is about saving the life of the defenseless.”  I think that’s part of the argument for masks, with seniors in mind, right?  But is it even worth having that conversation? 

My point is not to argue for or against wearing a mask.  That’s what I was arguing in my original post.  Despite my argument in favor of masks, I hate wearing a mask and my flesh balks when the government tells me to do anything I don’t want to do (like paying taxes, for example).  But when I feel the flesh waging war in my soul and I start defending my flesh, alarms should go off. This is my point.   

Christ called us to kill the flesh.  Christ called us to come and die to self, then live in and for him.  If I were somehow exempt from wearing a mask but masks on others was still required, would I be so quick to stand on conviction and fight for the removal of all masks?  Probably not.  It would seem I don’t love others as I love myself (Matthew 22:37-40).  If all Christians wear masks in exchange for the end of all abortions around the world, would Christians stand in unity and wear masks for the rest of their lives?  Sadly, I don’t think so.  We don’t love others as Christ has loved us (John 13:34-35).    

What my mask is showing me is my depravity and selfishness.  What the arguments about masks are showing me is that I’m not alone.  Hypocrisy runs deep and wide.  Lord, help us!       

Stuck the Cyclone of "Every Wind of Teaching"

An immature church, full of immature Christians will never be capable of dealing with egregious sins like racism.  For the most part, the Church in America is like a child, tossed by the waves and blown around by every wind of teaching, by human cunning with cleverness in the techniques of deceit. 

Our immaturity is a direct result of misguided discipleship.  It's not that Christians aren't being discipled, it's that God's people are being discipled by the world through news media, social media, peer pressure, and the deep desire to belong to something, anything. 

Consider the young college student.  Before heading to the university, her Christian youth group focused on regular attendance, community, fun, and pizza parties.  Belonging was number one.  When she arrived on campus, she had a void and needed new belonging.  When a girl in her sorority was raped, she stood in solidarity with other students about reforming campus policies (there's nothing wrong with that!).  Hurt and afraid, she posted social media statements about the wickedness of all males and how she thinks the campus should consider being gender-segregated for safety.  She wasn't thinking about her desire to meet a nice young man and get married. She was only thinking about statements that would bring "likes" and "hearts" from her peers to reinforce the feeling of belonging.  When a white female student was harassed and then murdered by a non-student black man, she stood with her peers to decry that the campus police didn't do enough to protect the female student (and maybe they didn't; likely reform is necessary).  She began demanding more funding for campus police so they can keep the students safe.  Then she held the police more responsible for the female student’s death than the man who killed her because this gained "likes" and "hearts" and helped her build her identity as one of the peers.  A year later, she stood with her fellow students to demand that the university defund and disband the campus police to fix racism on campus.  "Likes" and "hearts" poured in from others who stood with her, and she gave them "likes" and "hearts" too.  When asked about how safety would be maintained on campus, she suggested more counselors and that "responsible non-police students and faculty could carry guns."  As the "likes" and "hearts" came in, she and her peers forgot that only a couple years before, her sorority sisters demanded that all guns be removed from the school.  All of this spinning cyclone for belonging and identity, and it's only her sophomore year. 

Or consider the middle-aged Christian man who knows the names of every popular politician, pundit, and all the news-cycle's daily drama. He seeks every opportunity to steer the conversation to politics.  He watches only one news network.  All others are evil and don't promote his perceived community of like-minded peers.  His social media feed is full of his tribe's rants, and everyone else has blocked or hidden his social media posts.  He could talk about the day's issues for hours.  Yet, he hasn't spent even 5-minutes reading the Bible over the past three months.  Prayer, what's that?  To be clear, this is more about belonging and identity than it is about any political issue. 

How about the argumentative "theologian" who is serious about a single doctrine, ending abortion, beards, and getting into fights.  He's never read the entire Bible, only sticking to the few verses he needs to get into self-righteous battles with other Christians.  He doesn't even know other doctrines, and he doesn't care.  If you have one of these guys in mind, realize that there's an entire community of young men conforming to these unspoken standards, desiring an identity and feeling of belonging. 

Need I even mention the Christian woman who has more faith in essential oils and the latest health fad than she does in Christ?

We all need identity and belonging, and we're all tempted to find it in the world.  But when we are discipled by the world, we're like children, tossed by the waves and blown around by every wind of teaching, human cunning with cleverness in the techniques of deceit.

Ephesians 4:1-5:14 has a great deal to say about maturity, discipleship, identity, and belonging.   It turns out, Christians already belong to the family of God because of what Christ has done for us.  Our identity should be securely wrapped up in the Lord, not the empty things of this failing world.  God has made us part of a community called the Body of Christ, submitted to Jesus. 

True discipleship, by Jesus and Jesus' people--equips us for the work of godly ministry. That ministry, empowered by God, is what ends racism, rape, abortion, and the systemic issues of sin in our world. Discipleship builds up the Body of Christ in love so that every part of the Body is growing and working together.  Every person is knit together regardless of race, sex, background, social status, education, age, or all the other divisive things of the world.  In this Body, under proper discipleship from the Lord and the Lord's people, we grow in the knowledge of God's Son and into maturity as Christians.  And then we become brighter light (Christ shining through us) into a sinful and dark world.  When we are discipled by God rather than the world. we can see broken, sinful hearts (evidenced by racism, the need for false community and identity, and all sorts of other rotten fruit) in us and in the world that needs redeemed for God's glory. But today, we're too immature for such beautiful things because we're still content to be discipled by the world.

Racism is But One Symptom of a Larger Problem in the Church

It's too easy to make an argument and then hook on a couple of verses from the Bible as if to suggest the entire case is biblical. That's how pastors push their own ideas and opinions. It's another thing altogether when we let the Bible make the argument. Then the preacher and the hearer sit under God's Word together.  

Together, we should examine an account of racism in the early Church and feel the conviction of a much more significant problem than racism among our local churches. If racism weren’t bad enough, racism might only be but a nasty symptom of a deeper cancer that, when address, might bring about significant health that the Church in American is sorely missing.  

Acts 6:1-7 records a problem in the First Century Church. Likely, it was racism. Among the Jewish people, there were Hellenistic and Hebraic people. There's much debate if this were a distinction of origin, history, or language, but Scripture is clear that the Hebraic Jews were wrongly treating the Hellenistic widows. As we read this account and their solution, we discover that the American Church has a few more problems than racism alone.  We also see that only a healthy church deals with problems in a biblically healthy way.

The Church had evangelized to people different than themselves. The Church was caring for the poor and the "least of these." The Church heard the Hellenist's concerns of mistreatment. The Apostles understood their responsibility to prayer and the Word of God. The congregation was able to select men of good reputation, full of the Spirit and wisdom to deal with the matter, and the people trusted and submitted to their leadership. Men, mature in the Lord and willing to serve in thankless, challenging ministries, could be found in the Church. And the result of the Church's handling of this matter meant the gospel spread, the Church increased in number, and even a large group of priests became believers. 

Acts 6:1-7 should compel us to ask if all these things are a reality in the Church today. Indeed there's a problem of racism. But are we able to rightly deal with racism in the American Church as they did in Jerusalem in the First Century? Are our churches healthy enough to deal with racism? The challenge before us exposes that there may be a few things missing. 

The Church had evangelized to people different than themselves.
There's so much focus today about diversity in the local church. Actually, there's a great deal of discussion about diversity in predominantly white churches, but a conversation by God's standard should apply to all local churches. If we are led by God's mandate to make disciples of all the earth, we should hope to see diversity that matches the community in every Christian church. The problem comes when we select a "target" group of people to evangelize rather than everyone in our community. Have we proclaimed the gospel to all of our neighbors without trying to skirt the mandate, asking, "who is my neighbor?" Do we believe Jesus? He said our neighbors include both the Pharisee and the Samaritan. How about those on "the other side of the tracks"? The rich neighborhoods? People who don't look like us? How about those who have different preferences than we do? Speak a different language and come from different cultures? If we’re not evangelizing them, we should get on that. If we’re not evangelizing them, maybe racism is wrongly affecting our evangelism and obedience to make disciples. If we are and have proclaimed the gospel to them, then it's time to expand the geographic circle and find more neighbors.       

The Church was caring for the poor and the "least of these."
The problem of racism wasn't far outside the church but within the church's ministry. The church in Jerusalem was caring for the widows, that is, the poorest of the community without means of getting food. The local church offered welfare to widows. The Roman government didn't need to supply a handout because the Jerusalem church was already providing. And it was within the church's care for the widows that God was sanctifying the servants, calling out their favoritism and racism while they served. For the Early Church, dealing with racism in food distribution was a course correction to prepare the Church to take the gospel to the Gentiles. By serving, they knew the Hellenistic widows and learned how to mortify racism in their hearts because the sin was tied to relationships inside the faith-family. Are local churches and members personally serving the "least of these" in ways that stretch and grow us, mortifying our sin? Or are we a parked, non-moving, non-serving church with no room for course-correction and sanctification?  

The Church heard concerns of mistreatment.
The Hellenistic widows were overlooked in the daily distribution, but notice that it wasn't the widows who brought the complaint. It was other Hellenistic Jews who said "their" widows were unfairly treated. Others were speaking up for those who likely didn't have much of a voice. And notice what's not recorded in the account. There wasn't a race to agree with one side or the other. There wasn't an effort to discredit the Hellenists or Hebraic Jews to burry the matter or to save face. It wasn't a blame game or a blame shift. Instead, brothers and sisters were heard, and it would seem time was given to seek solutions. Hearing is different than agreeing or affirming, but before agreement or disagreement was reached, the church heard the problem. Sin tempts us to silence the conversation or get so loud that there is no hearing. Humility is hearing the voiceless, and a servant's heart should lead us to stand for the unheard so that they may be heard. Hearing requires patience to take the time to listen, think, and rightly respond.       

The Apostles understood their responsibility to prayer and the Word of God.
Ephesians 4:11-16 informs us that the Apostles (as well as prophets, evangelists, and pastors) have a specific responsibility to equip the saints for maturity, unity, and the excellent work of the ministry of God. The Apostles also understood that it was necessary to fix the bread distribution system. Still, it was only through the Word of God and prayer that the more significant problem of racism could be rectified within the Church. The Word of God and prayer are necessary for a healthy church and only a biblically healthy church will correctly deal with racism. Chrysostom (an early theologian and commentator in the Church) wrote, "The needful must give precedence to the more needful. But see, how they take thought directly for these inferior matters and yet do not neglect the preaching" (Homilies on the Acts of the Apostles). Certainly, this is not to say we shouldn't fix broken systems. We should! But we should see that God uses a variety of people within the Church to do the work, to include preachers of God's Word, the selected people to fix the broken systems, and the entire Church that does the work of ministry. Too often in our local churches today, the preachers have drifted from proclaiming God's Word, few are willing or able to fix broken systems, and the bulk of the Body thinks it's the church staff who are supposed to do the work of ministry. However, challenges like the inequality in the food distribution are opportunities for the Body of Christ to grow in unity, mature, and do the work of the Lord. So are the challenges we face in the Church today. And it is by the Word of God and prayer that a healthy church will face these challenges as God intends.  

The congregation was able to select men of good reputation, full of the Spirit and wisdom to deal with the matter, and the people trusted and submitted to their leadership.
There are two condemning charges here. First, most of today's churches only know the people they see on stage and few, if any, others. The church of the First Century seemed to relate to each other well enough to know who the men of good, godly character were in the church. It’s important that a church know each other, especially if it’s necessary to have men of good reputation, full of the Spirit and wisdom. Deeply rooted problems like racism require more than surface-level relationships. Second, is the church willing to submit to the other lay leaders tasked with fixing problems? Many in the church desire to press their preferences and get their way or they leave to another local body. This shouldn’t surprise anyone when there are no significant relationships between the brothers and sisters. How can we work issues to godly solutions if we don't know each other beyond superficial greetings on Sunday morning? It’s no wonder so many people struggle to submit to the local leaders placed over them in the local church. It’s difficult to trust strangers.   

Men, mature in the Lord and willing to serve in thankless, challenging ministries, could be found in the Church. 
They found seven godly men of godly character. They may have been appointed as deacons, but the Text does not make that clear. Today, too few men dedicate themselves to live Godly lives and service in the local church as faithful lay members. Many churches would have no ancillary ministries if not for the faithful women who serve. Where are the godly men? How many men serve on the children's ministry rotation? How many men volunteer to serve in the unseen or unpopular ministries? And when there are men present, is it not always the same few guys who show up early or stay late to help, even if there's a football game on somewhere? Why are so many men absent in the church beyond Sunday morning services? Where are they? What does biblical leadership in the home look like today? Might the sin of racism be mortified if men were insuring the Bible be read and taught in their families instead of grumbling when the wife tries to get the family to pray at a meal or read Scripture together? It's no wonder the church and the broken systems look like they do—too many man are apathetic to the ministry of the Lord. They’ve hamstrung the Body of Christ!

In conclusion, the result of the Church's handling of this matter meant in the gospel spread and the Church increased in number.
How often does resolving conflict in a local church or correcting systemic issues in the Church at large grow the church and cause the unconverted to hear the gospel and become regenerated in Christ? When was the last time a growing congregation was the result of problems and challenges in the Church? It could be that the Acts 6 daily distribution of bread matter was an anomaly, or it might be that we in the Church have a bigger problem then we think.  If the solution to dealing with racism in the Church is godly and the Church is healthy, we should expect to see gospel propagation and growth. If the solution does not proclaim the gospel and grow the Church, it might be a worldly solution adopted by an unhealthy Church.

Racism within the hearts of Christians is wrong. Only a healthy church has the ability to deal with a problem as challenging as racism. I pray that we might take some lessons from Acts 6 and see not only racism mortified, but many other matters of our church also redeemed and made well. We need to see the Church in America become healthy. Otherwise, an unhealthy Church can't make much of anything right, let alone the evil of racism.  May God help us.   

Lessons From Floyd: "An Overview of the Problem"

At the request of a faithful listener, Jared Jenkins and Bryan Catherman have been asked to look through the lens of the Bible to discuss the murder, tension, and subsequent activity surrounding the murder of George Floyd. They have taken up this request and are attempting to explore this matter and discuss it in a thoughtful way that should help the Christian understand the biblical view from a larger perspective than one act of racism or a week of protests and riots.

In this first episode, they attempt to take a high look and offer an overview of the problem. And indeed, they share what the Bible says in the solution. In later podcasts, they hope to dig down into the mess specifics. We hope you’ll subscribe to Salty Believer Unscripted wherever you listen to podcasts and follow along. You can also join the conversation by reaching out to us.

Listen to the first episode, “And Overview of the Problem” here:

Find more podcasts like this, as well as many interviews with Christian pastors, professors, authors, and others from all across the US and Canada on our Salty Believer Unscripted page. And be sure to subscribe to the Salty Believer Unscripted on your favorite podcast app, or use these links:
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Unscripted: "Know God's Word"

As a Christian, one should desire to know God’s Word, the Bible. It should be his or her longing, and it’s a normal part of the believer’s life. However, too many times people profess to be Christians and hold no interest in the Bible. In this episode of our new series, “Now What?” Jared Jenkins and Bryan Catherman discuss why it is so important to know God’s Word. Listen to this episode, “Know God’s Word” here:

Find more podcasts like this, as well as many interviews with Christian pastors, professors, authors, and others from all across the US and Canada on our Salty Believer Unscripted page. And be sure to subscribe to the Salty Believer Unscripted on your favorite podcast app, or use these links:
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Now What? "Get Baptized!"

The COVID-19/coronavirus pandemic and quarantines may be God’s means to draw people to himself. It could be that people are converting to Christianity, or it might be that Christians have had more opportunity to grow and see the greater truths of Christianity. Christians suffer. Christians have doubt. Temptation may remain. in addition to these, there is so many more things Christians should expect and there are some things Christians should do. In this new series, “Now What?” Jared Jenkins and Bryan Catherman explore what Christians should think and do when they encounter Christianity beyond cultural or prosperity faith.

In the first episode of this series, the guys call upon Christians to get baptized. They also deal with common questions about baptism and even some objections. What does the Bible say? Listen to this episode, “Get Baptized” here:

Find more podcasts like this, as well as many interviews with Christian pastors, professors, authors, and others from all across the US and Canada on our Salty Believer Unscripted page. And be sure to subscribe to the Salty Believer Unscripted on your favorite podcast app, or use these links:
RSS Feed | Spotify | iTunes | Google Play Music | TuneIn | Stitcher | iHeartRADIO

Unscripted Podcast Series: "Fear Not! A Response to COVID-19"

In response to the COVID-19/coronavirus pandemic and quarantines, Bryan Catherman and Jared Jenkins invited many friends to join them in unscripted discussions relating to timely events, to include an earthquake in Salt Lake City. They’ve completed the series. If you’ve missed it or any of the episodes, you can find it wherever you listen to podcast or find episodes here:

Fear Not! A Response to COVID-19
How does Acts 2 Speak into Today? audio
— Less Fear More Love audio
— Where is God When Bad Things Happen? (with Dr. Travis Kerns) audio
— Answers to Your Tough Questions audio
— Lead Us Not Into Temptation audio
— Theological Reflection (with Dr. Jim Wilson) audio
— Is This the End of the World? (with Dr. Malcolm Yarnell) audio
— Video Streaming Preaching (with Dr. David Allen) audio
— Preaching Lessons We Need 1 Year From Now (with Dr. David Allen) audio
— On the Grocery Store Frontline (with Josiah Walker) audio
— We Need to Talk About Death audio
— Receiving Streamed Sermons Well (with Dr. Jason Allen) audio
— Lessons from History (with Dr. Robert Caldwell) audio
— Doctrine, Decisions, and COVID-19 (with Dr. Bobby Jamieson) audio
— Serious Doubt and the Crisis of Faith (with Dr. Adam Groza) audio
— Can the World Handle Mad Max? (with Dr. Adam Groza) audio
— Historical Theology, Technology, and Crisis (with Dr. Ryan Rindels) audio
— Leading in Change (with Dr. Jeff Iorg) audio
— Pastoral Identity Crisis (with Dr. Jeff Iorg) audio

Find more podcasts like this, as well as many interviews with Christian pastors, professors, authors, and others from all across the US and Canada on our Salty Believer Unscripted page. And be sure to subscribe to the Salty Believer Unscripted on your favorite podcast app, or use these links:
RSS Feed | Spotify | iTunes | Google Play Music | TuneIn | Stitcher | iHeartRADIO

Baptizing Infants?

As a baptist pastor, I've met with many people who were previously "baptized" as infants or small children but were considering if they should be baptized as a professing believer of Jesus Christ. I appreciate this question. Let us consider this matter.

The argument for pedobaptism (infant-baptism) goes like this: Colossians 2:11-12 argues that we were circumcised in a non-human circumcision, that is, a spiritual one when we were buried with Christ in baptism. Therefore, explains the pedobaptist, baptism is the new circumcision. Since the Old Covenant calls for all males to be circumcised on the 8th day, infants should be baptized. Besides, the argument suggests this is how children of believing families enter the covenant community of God. They suggest that it's not a sign that the child is a Christian but instead part of the Church (as a family member of a Christian). Furthermore, the pedobaptist points to Acts 16:31 and notes that it suggests that all his household was baptized and assumes this means there were babies in the house, and that they were baptized too.

In response to the pedobaptist position, we indeed should agree that baptism marks God's people who have died with Christ, just as circumcision marked God's people who were a part of the Nation of Israel. But they are not exactly alike, or baptism would still be circumcision. The Nation of Israel is not the Church. There is but only an illustration here, just as there is an illustration in 1 Peter 3:21-22.

Peter explains that baptism corresponds not to circumcision but to Noah and the flood. He then calls baptism "a pledge of a good conscience toward God," which sounds nothing like infant circumcision into citizenship in the nation of Israel. Nor is it possible for an infant to make such a pledge.

If baptism corresponds to the Old Testament covenant marked by circumcision on the 8th day, there is no provision for circumcising females, so there is no instruction or command for baptizing female infants. Doing so would be inconsistent with Scripture if we believe that infant baptism replaces infant circumcision.

One must also ask if the true Church can be made up of unbelievers? If infant circumcision of children to believing parents brings those children into the covenant family of God, is that family not the True Church or is belief not a prerequisite for adoption into God's family, i.e., the Church? And what happens when that child rejects God later in life? Often one says that life and profession is a confirmation of the baptism, but shouldn't the baptism be confirmation of repentance and belief?

Belief is a condition of salvation. Acts 16:31 says, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved--you and your household." Who must believe? One person the house and then by proxy every human living under that roof is also saved whether he or she believes? No. "But wait," the pedobaptist says, "babies are exempt." Why, and at what age do they not receive this exemption? And how do we know there were babies present? And is this not a call to the entire household to believe? Let's be sure we understand Acts 16:31 is saying and what it is not saying?

It is easy to see why parents would want their children to be baptized, especially if we mistakenly think that baptism is what saves someone. In Luther and Calvin's day, this idea was widely held. One could not be buried in the church cemetery if he or she wasn't a member, but to be buried outside the church cemetery was fearful because it might mean that one was destined for hell. Of course, parents want to hope for their child's salvation, but let us remember that salvation does not hinge upon baptism, where he or she is buried, or even the faith of the parents.  Salvation is through faith in Christ, by His grace.  

The Bible says we are saved by faith in Christ alone, through His grace alone. There is no proxy for this. Yet, baptizing an infant depends upon the parent's faith, serving as proxy faith until the child is old enough to have his or her faith apart from the parent's beliefs. That's antithetical to the New Testament.

What should a person do if he or she was baptized as a baby?

First, be grateful for your parents, who hoped for your salvation from the very start of your life. They might have had poor theology in this matter, but their hope was good.

Second, if you have made a profession of faith, that is, you repent and believe that you are a sinner in need of a savior and that Jesus Christ is both that Savior and your Lord, by all means, get baptized! The New Testament commands believer's baptism as an act of obedience to Christ and a public profession of the inward work Jesus has done and is doing in your life.

Third, be grateful and kind to pedobaptists. I do not believe that the Bible sufficiently supports their position, but neither do I think this misunderstanding means they are not Christians. Martin Luther preached a sermon titled "Beware of False Prophets" from Matthew 7:15-25. In this sermon, he argued that all who disagree with his position of pedobaptism are wolves in sheep's clothing and agents of the devil. While Luther is a hero of the faith, in this regard, we must reject his example and should show grace in this area of difference. Let us seek Scripture and ask the Lord to help us work it out together.

Fear Not! "The Pastoral Identity Crisis" (with Dr. Jeff Iorg)

The COVID-19/coronavirus pandemic has brought many things to the surface. A minor (or in some cases, major) identity crisis is for many pastors is among the new discoveries bobbing to the top. As churches are struggling to figure out how to operate during quarantine and shelter-in-place orders, the pastor must examine his role and fit. Comparison temptation is running high with most ministry operations temporarily moving to social media venues. Worry is increasing as we venture into the financial unknown. This trying season is exposing issues of identity that should be dealt with.

Dr. Jeff Iorg, President of Gateway Seminary and author of many books, joined us on Salty Believer Unscripted to discuss the identify, security, and calling of the pastor. The conversation looked specifically into some of the new things brought about by the pandemic. Listen to this episode, “The Pastoral Identity Crisis” (with Dr. Jeff Iorg) here:

Find more podcasts like this, as well as many interviews with Christian pastors, professors, authors, and others from all across the US and Canada on our Salty Believer Unscripted page. And be sure to subscribe to the Salty Believer Unscripted on your favorite podcast app, or use these links:
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Fear Not! "Leading in Change" (with Dr. Jeff Iorg)

Sometimes we bring change and sometimes change is thrust upon us. Leading in either can be difficult, but leading when change is thrust upon us is especially challenging. Dr. Jeff Iorg, President of Gateway Seminary and author of Leading Major Change in Your Ministry joined Bryan Catherman and Jared Jenkins on Salty Believer Unscripted to share his insights about leading in change. Dr. Iorg led the team that transformed Golden Gate Baptist Seminary in San Fransisco to move to southern California and change the name while remaining fully operational. He has also served in denominal leadership through change and planted a church (which is almost defined by constantly managing change). Listen to this episode of our Fear Not! series, “Leading in Change” (with Dr. Jeff Iorg) here:

Find more podcasts like this, as well as many interviews with Christian pastors, professors, authors, and others from all across the US and Canada on our Salty Believer Unscripted page. And be sure to subscribe to the Salty Believer Unscripted on your favorite podcast app, or use these links:
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Fear Not! "Historical Theology, Technology, and Crisis" (with Dr. Ryan Rindels)

We’ve been reading great quotes from Church history, but Dr. Ryan Rindels reminds us that technology has made the circumstances completely different. While there are thoughts and principles we can learn from the past, we would not be shepherding our flock well if we simply tried to apply those ideas from history to our circumstances without considering the different circumstances. But still, the past can do well to inform us about our future. Listen to this episode, “Historical Theology, Technology, and Crisis” (with Dr. Ryan Rindels) here:

Find more podcasts like this, as well as many interviews with Christian pastors, professors, authors, and others from all across the US and Canada on our Salty Believer Unscripted page. And be sure to subscribe to the Salty Believer Unscripted on your favorite podcast app, or use these links:
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Fear Not! "Can the World Handle Mad Max?" (with Dr. Adam Groza)

There are thoughts bouncing around in our brains that have turned into conversations in the less public corners. COVID-19/coronavirus is bringing strange things to the surface. We’re thinking about conspiracy theories, numbers, police states, Machiavelli, rebellion, shame, group think, safety, and so much more. How do Christians respond with God’s Truth rather than going along with thoughts baked in fear of the unknown? How do pastors lead in the soup of this trying season?

Dr. Adam Groza (Vice President of Gateway Seminary and Professor at Cal Baptist) joined Jared Jenkins and Bryan Catherman for a podcast about his forthcoming book, Faith Wins: Overcoming a Crisis of Belief (New Hope, 2020). As soon as that episode ended and the recording light went off, a conversation came out that might have fit a scene from the 1980 film, “Mad Max.” Knowing that we’re not the only ones battling these ideas, we decided to hit record again and ask the question, how does a pastor lead in light of this undercurrent coming to the surface? Listen to this episode, “Can the World Handle Mad Max?” (with Dr. Adam Groza) here:

Find more podcasts like this, as well as many interviews with Christian pastors, professors, authors, and others from all across the US and Canada on our Salty Believer Unscripted page. And be sure to subscribe to the Salty Believer Unscripted on your favorite podcast app, or use these links:
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Fear Not! "Serious Doubt and the Crisis of Faith" (with Dr. Adam Groza)

Dr. Adam Groza, Vice President of Enrollment and Student Services at Gateway Seminary and author of the forthcoming book Faith Wins: Overcoming a Crisis of Belief (New Hope, 2020) joined Bryan Catherman and Jared Jenkins to discuss doubt during a time like the COVID-19 pandemic. Doubt and a crisis of belief don’t only happen during trying times, but they do happen. In this episode, Dr. Groza shares some thoughts about why it might happen and what to do when we experience doubt. Listen to “Serious Doubt and the Crisis of Faith” (with Dr. Adam Groza) here:

Find more podcasts like this, as well as many interviews with Christian pastors, professors, authors, and others from all across the US and Canada on our Salty Believer Unscripted page. And be sure to subscribe to the Salty Believer Unscripted on your favorite podcast app, or use these links:
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Fear Not! "Doctrine, Decisions, and COVID-19" (with Dr. Bobby Jamieson)

Should churches still try to meet or should they adhere to governmental guidance, directives, and mandates? Should we call our on-line streaming services a gathering of the church or is it something else? What about the Lord’s Supper; should we do that over Zoom? Bobby Jamieson joined Jared Jenkins and Bryan Catherman to discuss how doctrine should shape a church’s decisions always, to include during the coronavirus/COVID-19 pandemic. Jamieson is the author of a few books, to include "Sound Doctrine: How a Church Grow’s in the Love and Holiness of God and Understanding the Lord’s Supper. He’s also an associate pastor at Capital Hill Baptist Church in Washington D.C. Listen to this episode in our Fear Not! series, “Doctrine, Decisions, and COVID-19” (with Bobby Jamieson):

Find more podcasts like this, as well as many interviews with Christian pastors, professors, authors, and others from all across the US and Canada on our Salty Believer Unscripted page. And be sure to subscribe to the Salty Believer Unscripted on your favorite podcast app, or use these links:
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Building Healthy Churches: Sound Doctrine (with Dr. Bobby Jamieson)

Dr. Bobby Jamieson, author of Sound Doctrine: How a Church Grows in the Love and Holiness of God, spent some time talking with Bryan Catherman and Jared Jenkins about his book, among many other things. In addition, Jamieson is an associate pastor at Capital Hill Baptist Church and writes for both 9Marks and The Gospel Coalition.

This podcast is part of an ongoing monthly series through the 12 books of the 9Marks Building Healthy Churches series. Listen to this episode, “Sound Doctrine” here:

Find more podcasts like this, as well as many interviews with Christian pastors, professors, authors, and others from all across the US and Canada on our Salty Believer Unscripted page. And be sure to subscribe to the Salty Believer Unscripted on your favorite podcast app, or use these links:
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Fear Not! "Lessons from History" (with Dr. Robert Caldwell)

Dr. Robert Caldwell (Professor of Church History at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary) joined us on Salty Believer Unscripted to discuss lessons from Church history that might help inform us about today’s coronavirus/COVID-19 pandemic. Did you of Cyprian’s plague? It’s possible that up to 5,000 people were dying per day in a period around A.D. 250. Dr. Caldwell discussed how the Christians ran toward the problem to help and be a blessing rather than run away. We also discussed the possibility of a revival or awakening because of heightened thoughts toward spiritual things. Could we be headed toward a revival in the U.S? He deals with that question too. Listen to this episode, “Lessons from History” here:

Find more podcasts like this, as well as many interviews with Christian pastors, professors, authors, and others from all across the US and Canada on our Salty Believer Unscripted page. And be sure to subscribe to the Salty Believer Unscripted on your favorite podcast app, or use these links:
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Fear Not! "Receiving the Streamed Sermon Well" (with Dr. Jason Allen)

As Pastors are scrambling to figure out how to preach streamed video sermons, are members of the local church thinking about how to receive streamed sermons as well as they could? That’s the the topic of conversation between Jared Jenkins, Bryan Catherman, and our guest, Dr. Jason Allen. How do we turn our living room and a recliners into an opportunity to rightly sit under the teaching and preaching of the Word of God? Should this season change our thinking on the church, preaching, or technology? What might Dr. Allen have change in his recent book on preaching, Letters to My Students? (And Bryan asked why is says “Volume 1” on the cover.) They covered these questions and many others.

Dr. Allen is the President of Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, author of multiple books, and host of the “Preaching and Preachers.”

Listen to this episode of Salty Believer Unscripted, “Receiving Streamed Sermons Well” here:

Find more podcasts like this, as well as many interviews with Christian pastors, professors, authors, and others from all across the US and Canada on our Salty Believer Unscripted page. And be sure to subscribe to the Salty Believer Unscripted on your favorite podcast app, or use these links:
RSS Feed | Spotify | iTunes | Google Play Music | TuneIn | Stitcher | iHeartRADIO